Guthrie Genealogy

GENETIC GENEALOGY of GUTHRIE FAMILY GROUP 2A

GENETIC CLUSTERS within GUTHRIE FAMILY GROUP 2A

First, some definitions... 

WHAT IS A FAMILY GROUP? 

For the purposes of the Guthrie DNA Project, a family group consists of two or more participants who are genetically related. There are 12+ Family Groups identified within the project. Guthrie Family Group 2A: The MD/PA Group is one such family group. All participants within the family group share a common Guthrie ancestor.

No Family Group is genetically related to any of the the other groups. 

Some participants can be historically connected with a particular family group, but due to circumstances such as paternal events, adoptions, or heraldic laws the DNA may tell a different story. These individuals or groups of individuals in cases where a whole lineage is affected may be placed in a sub-group attached to the main family group. Such is the case with Guthrie Family Group 2B whose descendants trace their ancestry to a Group 2A ancestor, but whose DNA does not match that of any Guthrie group.

WHAT IS A CLUSTER?

As the Maryland/Pennsylvania Group (Guthrie Family Group 2A) continues to add new participants, we are gaining new insight into how each of our ancestral lines are interrelated. A cluster consists of one or more branches with something significant in common: DNA results with common patterns, regional, or historical connections. Branches placed within a cluster have some detail that suggests they might share a more recent common ancestor than everyone else.

WHAT IS A BRANCH?

A branch consists of participant lineages traceable by historical research or genetic means to a common ancestor. This individual is generally referred to as the Branch Progenitor. 

  

CLUSTER 1:  Brandywine Connections and/or Mode DNA Results

BRANCHES: B, F, and I 

COMMON TRAITS:

  • Ties to the Three Brothers Theory (Brothers Robert, James and John came to America...etcetera)
  • Ties to Connecticut and/or Brandywine Township, PA
  • Mode DNA Results 
    • Possesses the most common genetic marker result found at any given marker. 
    • Probably reflects the DNA of Guthrie Family Group 2A's Common Ancestor.

PATTERN MARKERS:

  • None. This cluster is most closely associated with Mode DNA results amongst its participants.  
COMMON ANCESTOR: Probably lived in Scotland. Possibly in Edinburgh. Mid-Late 1600s.

BRANCH B: The (Presumed) Descendants of Robert Guthrie of Fallowfield Township, Chester County, PA {LRG, pp.169-215}

  • Robert is one of the brothers named in the Three Brothers Theory originally described in Dunn & Dunn. These brothers reportedly lived in Edinburgh, Scotland.
  • Presumed sons include: Adam Guthrie (Mercy Irwin), William Guthrie (Elizabeth Barnett), James Guthrie (Jeanette Wilson), and John Guthrie (Margaret Brown)
  • No DNA for son John Guthrie (Margaret Brown) in the project at this time.
  • DNA of 'son' James Guthrie (Jeanette Wilson) descendants appears to be better match for Branch G. He cannot be brother to Adam & William.
  • Adam Guthrie (Mercy Irwin) has ties to Brandywine Township, the same location Branch I descendants lived.
  • Adam Guthrie's descendant PPG, and one of the two descendants of William Guthrie have Mode DNA Results.
BRANCH F: The Descendants of John Guthrie & Abigail Coe of Connecticut {LRG, pp.77-157}
  • John's father John is one of the brothers named in the Three Brothers Theory originally described in Dunn & Dunn. These brothers reportedly lived in Edinburgh.
  • John's father reportedly moved from Scotland to Ireland to Connecticut.
  • The participant representing John's lineage has Mode DNA Results.
BRANCH I: The Descendants of James Guthrie of Brandywine Township, Chester County, PA {LRG, pp215-308}
  • James' father is one of the three brothers named in the Three Brothers Theory originally described in Dunn & Dunn. These brothers reportedly lived in Edinburgh.
  • James Guthrie of Brandywine Twp may have been the James Guthrie who married the Miss Bissell rather than his father.
  • The Bissell surname is very common in Connecticut.
  • Brandywine Twp was also the home of Branch B's Adam Guthrie.
CLUSTER 2: ORIGINS LINKED to the GUTHRIES of PITFORTHIE

BRANCH:  G

COMMON TRAITS: Residence in Westmoreland County, Pennsylvania

PATTERN MARKERS: DYS442 = 11 and DYS712=20

COMMON ANCESTOR: James Guthrie and John Guthrie are believed to be brothers, so their common ancestor would be their as yet unidentified father.

BRANCH G: DESCENDANTS of JOHN GUTHRIE (JANE REED) {LRG, pp408-423} and JAMES GUTHRIE (JEANETTE WILSON)

James Guthrie (c1720-p1801) 

  • It is unknown what year James came to America or whether he came alone. The genetic match suggests that James & John were brothers. From what we know of John's history, his parents remained in Londonderry and never made the trip to America. James Guthrie was already established in Pennsylvania before brother John made the journey to the colonies.
  • James purchased property on Back Creek, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania in 1748, so he was present in the colony by that date.
  • James married Jeanette (Wilson) Moore in PA and their three children were born there.
  • The Back Creek property was sold in 1777, not long after brother John Guthrie & family arrived in America and settled in Westmoreland County, Pennsylvania. Sometime between that year and 1786, James & family also moved to Westmoreland County, PA, living on Crabtree Run, now Salem Township.
  • James & Jeanette's son William Guthrie married John & Jane (Reed) Guthrie's widowed daughter Mrs Elizabeth Guthrie Brownlee

John Guthrie (1725-1797)

  • John was born near Londonderry, Northern Ireland, as were the majority of his children. He was a devout Covenanter.
  • John and his family immigrated to America in 1771.
  • Within a year of their arrival the family moved to Westmoreland County, Pennsylvania
  • This lineage is reportedly tied to the Guthries of Pitforthie, which presents an interesting historical and/or genetic dilemma since the Laird of Pitforthie was supposed to be a brother to the Laird of Guthrie. The Guthries of Guthrie are supposed to be the ancestors of Guthrie Family Group 1 who are not genetically related to Group 2A.
  • John & Jane's widowed daughter Mrs Elizabeth Guthrie Brownlee married William Guthrie, son of James & Jeanette (Wilson) Guthrie
CLUSTER 3: COLONIAL DELAWARE ORIGINS

BRANCH: C

COMMON TRAITS: A vague paper trail that leads back to colonial Delaware

PATTERN MARKERS: DYS561=17 (Found in all 3 of Robert & Castilla (Simpson) Guthrie's descendants and the 1 participant descending from Edmund & Elizabeth (Sapp) Guthrie's. Both Robert & Edmund were believed to be sons of James & Elizabeth (Eilor) Guthrie. This shared genetic marker seems to provide the proof.

PROPOSED COMMON ANCESTORS: Samuel Guthrie Sr & Mary_____ of New Castle County, Delaware, USA

BRANCH C: DESCENDANTS of JAMES GUTHRIE (ELIZABETH EILOR) of FAYETTE COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA {LRG, pp456-457} 

There are a lot of breadcrumbs to follow on the sketchy trail leading from James Guthrie of Fayette County, Pennsylvania back to his proposed home in New Castle County, Delaware, but they do exist. James Guthrie is possibly the son of Samuel Guthrie Jr & Margaret Knox, and the grandson of Samuel Guthrie Sr & Mary ______ . DNA is required to prove that the lineage of Samuel Guthrie is a match for Guthrie Family Group 2A. A match at genetic marker DYS561=17 would prove the familial relationship. Unfortunately, after making an effort to trace the descendants of Samuel & Mary it appears that there are few if any surviving male Guthrie descendants.

The strongest connection to the paper trail is the lineage of James Guthrie & Louisa Rebecca Naylor. James is another probable brother to Robert & Edmund Guthrie. If a descendant of that line can be found to participate in the DNA project it will provide a little more weight to the results one way or the other.

CLUSTER 4: THE ARCHIBALD FACTOR

BRANCHES: D & J

COMMON TRAITS: Recurrence of the name Archibald within family lineages, ancestors serving in the same regiment during the Revolutionary War, Residence in Greene County, PA, Common Spelling Variance: Guthery. 

PATTERN MARKERS: 

Archibald Guthery (Rebecca Phillips) Descendants: DYS458=17 and DYS710=35

Tordiff & Roy Surname Matches: DYS458=17, DYS 464a-d=15/15/17/17, DYS714=25, DYS525=18

John Guthery (Lydia Baldwin) Descendants and Joseph Guthrie (Julia McCarthy) Descendants: DYS715=25

ISSUES:

Added 2 Jan 2014: Unlike some of the other cluster configurations, I am not completely satisfied with this one. The common traits between the two Branch D lineages of Archibald Guthery (Rebecca Phillips) and John Guthery (Lydia Baldwin) suggesting a closer common ancestor within GFG2A is not supported by the DNA evidence. The addition of Branch J, a closer match to the John Guthery (Lydia Baldwin) line, does not help the cause as any common ancestor between either Branch D line and Branch J would be found back in Ireland. Now, the discovery of the Tordiff and Roy lineages descending from GFG2A DNA have added a new layer of confusion for this cluster. The Tordiff line likely descends from the Roy line (or vice versa), which ultimately descends from GFG2A DNA. The genetic variances within the DNA suggest a closer tie to the Branch D lineage of Archibald Guthery (Rebecca Phillips) lineage, although it is quite likely that the paternal event/adoption that created this match occurred back in Ireland. 

BRANCH D: DESCENDANTS of ARCHIBALD GUTHERY SR of the FRENCH & INDIAN WARS {LRG, pp.376-379}

This man is a very elusive figure with few historical references. It has been proposed that Archibald Guthery Jr (Rebecca Phillips) and John Guthery (Lydia Baldwin) were brothers. They were both in the same military company during the American Revolution. John also named a son Archibald. Early records use the same Guthery spelling variation for both families. No other interaction between Archibald and John's families has been found. The DNA patterns for both lines seem to show genetic changes that occurred after the birth of their potential common ancestor, which are not helpful in identifying a familial match.

The two lineages of Branch D have no common genetic variances.

John's two descendants are fairly close cousins. Their one variance compared to GFG2A Mode DNA is found at DYS715=25. This mutation is also shared by Branch J (see below).

Archibald's two project descendants share two pattern markers, but one of them has 2 additional mutations. DYS464d=17 also matches the Tordiff/Roy descendants. The other is on a "fast moving marker" that seems to show a lot of genetic changes across all Guthrie Family Groups, suggesting that any differences are representative of random and/or recent changes rather than something historic to our genetic makeup.

The evidence seems to be pointing away from the lineages of Archibald Guthery and John Guthery being brothers. The genetic variances found in their descendants continue to be divergent. We'll leave them together in this cluster for now until more evidence comes along.

BRANCH J: DESCENDANTS of JOSEPH GUTHRIE & JULIA MCCARTHY

Joseph Guthrie was born in Ireland in 1825 to a Scottish father and Irish mother. He immigrated to America about 1847 and lived in or near Cincinnati, Ohio during the Civil War. After the war he married and settled in Meigs County, Tennessee. Because of his relatively late arrival in the USA, we know that Joseph cannot be a descendant of Branch D. The DNA results point to a shared ancestry between Branch D (at least John Guthery's line) and Joseph. Since Joseph's father was born in Scotland, it can also be presumed that the common ancestor between D & J lived in Scotland. 

THE TORDIFF / ROY SURNAME MATCHES:

For the moment, I have not officially assigned our Tordiff & Roy surname matches to any particular branch, although genetically, they share some common markers with the Archibald Guthery (Rebecca Phillips) half of Branch D. 

TORDIFF: 1 participant, 111 markers tested, 102/111 match for GFG2A Mode DNA, 6 of the 9 differences exactly match the ROY lineage.

The Tordiff family has its roots in Carlisle, Cumberland, England. No known connection to the Guthrie family or to Scotland. Our Tordiff participant's particular family line emigrated from Plumbland Parish, Cumbria, England to Durham County, Ontario, Canada around 1830-1850s. Did this immigrant ancestor, William Tordiff, already possess GFG2A DNA, or was there a paternal event or adoption after his generation? We would need some more Tordiff participation to find out. There are very few people of that surname participating in the Tordoff DNA Project at this time and no indication of their specific lineage.

ROY: 2 participants, 1 at 67 markers and 1 at 111 markers. The latter is 101/111 match for GFG2A Mode DNA, 6 of the 10 differences exactly match the TORDIFF line.

The 2 participants come from separate branches of the ROY family, presumably sharing a common ROY ancestor possessing GFG2A DNA. Both trace their ancestry back to Revolutionary War era Virginia. No known ties to the Guthrie or Tordiff families. Unlike the Tordiff surname, the Roy surname is of Scottish origin.

The number of variances between our GUTHRIE MODE DNA and that of our TORDIFF/ROY cousins suggests that there are quite a few generations separating our Branch D participants from their closest common ancestor, but that the relationship between TORDIFF/ROY is much closer. 

CLUSTER 5: THE GUTHRIE-STUART ORIGIN THEORY

BRANCHES: A, E, H

COMMON TRAITS: Connections to Northern Ireland

PATTERN MARKERS:

DYS464a=15 is unique to Branch A Descendants indicating a genetic change that occurred at James Guthrie Sr's generation. This is a branch pattern marker.

DYS534=14 is found in all participants linked to this cluster in Branches A, E, and H. This is a cluster pattern marker inherited from the most recent common ancestor of all three branches. Based on this finding it is very likely that John, Robert & James were brothers. Listed in order of arrival to America:

BRANCH H: DESCENDANTS of JOHN GUTHRIE (ANN HILL) of OXFORD TOWNSHIP, CHESTER COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA {LRG, pp. 158-168}

  • John Guthrie was born in Northern Ireland on 29 June 1708.
  • It is estimated that he arrived in America about 1730.
  • His Origin Story indicates that he is a son of John Guthrie, a Covenanter who fled Scotland for Ireland, and who married Jane Stuart, a descendant of an Irish branch of the Royal House of Stuart. The pattern marker at DYS534 suggests that Robert, John & James were brothers. If John's origin story is correct, their parents were John & Jane (Stuart) Guthrie. 

BRANCH E: DESCENDANTS of ROBERT GUTHRIE SR (BRIDGET DOUGHERTY) of CARLISLE, CUMBERLAND, PENNSYLVANIA, USA {LRG, pp. 309-354}

  • Robert Guthrie was born c1700 in Londonderry, Northern Ireland. Some secondary and tertiary resources list 1711, which is the DOB listed for his wife Bridget Dougherty.
  • It is estimated that he and his eldest son Robert Guthrie came to America in 1740, with wife Bridget and their son James following in 1745.

BRANCH A: DESCENDANTS of JAMES GUTHRIE SR (ELIZABETH______) of MARYLAND and NORTH CAROLINA {LRG, pp. 431-441}

  • James was born c1720 presumedly in Northern Ireland. The origin story provided by his grandson, Rev Allen Washington Guthrie, is rather vague and indicates only that James married late in life and was about 50 years old at the time of son Robert's birth near Baltimore in 1770.
  • Unlike Branches E & H, Branch A has no Pennsylvania connections.
  • It is estimated that James Guthrie and his wife, Elizabeth, along with 1-2 children came to America in the late 1760s. They settled first near Baltimore, Maryland and by the time of the Battle of Guildford Courthouse were living near Hillsboro, Orange County, North Carolina. 

NOTE: This cluster was previously separated into its own Guthrie Family Group 'division' based on the unique genetic marker result at DYS534=14 instead of 15 for the rest of the group. I have simplified things by calling it a cluster instead, which makes sense because all 5 clusters do share 1 overall common ancestor.